Daydreaming With Discipline: Lili Haydn on Becoming a Film Composer (Episode 121)

Everything you do is an audition.

Lili Haydn is a violinist, singer and film composer who has done it the long way: open mics, sit-ins, opening slots, TED stages and score after score. She won a Grammy with her band Opium Moon, co-composed the music for Netflix's Ginny & Georgia, contributed additional score to Transparent, and is a long-active member of the Alliance of Women Film Composers.

In Episode 121 of The Career Musician, Nomad asks her how she went from an inspired kid with a violin to a working composer. If you want to know how to become a film composer and keep your own voice while you do it, this conversation is full of things you can use tomorrow.

Daydream with discipline

Lili started violin at seven. Her mom, a singer-songwriter and stand-up comedian, wrote a song in G major the day Lili got her instrument, so she could jam on open strings right away. That first-day taste of collaboration shaped everything after it.

Years later she went back to her classical teacher to tighten up her technique. The advice was to slow down and focus, because she was daydreaming. She did exactly that for a couple of months, then walked on stage and could not improvise. She had stopped daydreaming. Her fix was to keep both: let the ideas come, then give whatever she hears in her head the same slow, careful treatment she would give Bach.

"I call it daydreaming with discipline."

Lili Haydn, 6:17

Her tip for classically trained players who struggle to get off the page: listen to improvised music with a lot of space in it, against a drone, and play back what you hear. She recommends the Armenian duduk player Djivan Gasparyan. Nomad related. He had teachers who frowned on him improvising in the practice room, and he eventually decided he had to be himself.

Say yes, show up, make yourself indispensable

When Nomad asked how she actually got the gigs, Lili's answer was simple. She would open the LA Weekly, find the open mics and jams, walk up to the stage with her violin and ask to sit in. When people liked her, she was ready. That is where she found the members of her early bands.

She estimates 90 percent of those early gigs were freebies. She just wanted to be in the room when things were happening, and she was the one still there at three in the morning.

"Every good thing that I have ever done, I could draw you a line, it would be a serpentine line, but to something I did for free."

Lili Haydn, 21:50

She was also honest that you will get taken advantage of early on, and that at some point you set boundaries and ask to be paid. Her other advice: do one thing for your career every day, even 15 minutes. Reach out and ask how you can be helpful. That is Work begets work in its purest form.

Ask to open the show

This was the lesson Nomad wanted everyone to hear. Lili opened for Jimmy Page and Robert Plant on a US tour, opened for Parliament Funkadelic and for Sting. Part of how she got those slots: when artists asked her to play with them, she said yes, and then asked if she could also open.

It did not always work. When Leonard Cohen asked her to join what turned out to be his last tour, the opening spot was already spoken for, and with her own record coming out she turned the tour down. She wishes she had done it.

Nomad shared his side. He was music director for Babyface for ten years and never thought to ask to open, even though he was an artist too. Years later, when he did ask, management said no. His advice to the audience: take Lili's advice. Keep the ask light, make yourself indispensable first, and keep your pitch easy. In Lili's words, send one song, as a link, and make people do as little work as possible.

She added a word on balance. She has pushed too far and heard "back off." Read the room, be graceful, and know when to push and when to retreat. That is Savvy from the ETHOS code.

Fall in love with your star

Lili grew up acting, and she scores as an actor would. She relates to the characters dramatically, not intellectually. When she asked Hans Zimmer, whose team she has worked with, for one piece of advice, he told her to fall in love with her star. Her own version: dialogue is the lead singer.

Her way into that camp was a relationship. She met composer Henry Jackman while recording for Seal, stayed in touch, played and sang on his solo album, and when he started writing for Hans he brought her in to play on Pirates of the Caribbean. She was the one they called for fire, not for the perfect first take, and her violin-and-voice sound became one of the evil mermaid voices.

She also fights for the emotional payoff. On the documentary RUTH: Justice Ginsburg in Her Own Words, the temp track ended on a fun rock song. Lili asked the director to let her try to beat it with her theme. The director said try, Lili beat it, and people tell her they cry at the end. Nomad also asked about the Alliance of Women Film Composers. Lili's point: the members stopped being comfortable as "the only woman in the room" and started supporting each other, because a sister's win helps everyone.

Enjoy the process, and keep a buffer

Lili's practice is still daily, often at four in the morning, because violin and voice don't wait. Her advice to anyone starting out was blunt: if anything else would make you happy, do that and keep music on the side. If nothing else will, give it everything.

She won a Grammy, and she says it did not change her life much. If she had only been chasing the award and not in love with the process, she would be miserable. She also told Nomad not to be afraid of another income source. She makes her living scoring now and invested what her records earned to buffer the ups and downs. Make Music Your Business.

"If you're gonna do it, do it, do it all the way, and enjoy it and revel in it."

Lili Haydn, 1:00:50

The takeaway

Say yes. Show up. Ask for the opening slot. Fall in love with the story you are serving. And don't let rejection or awards knock you off your practice. As Lili's mom used to say, luck is labor under correct knowledge. We say Luck = preparation + opportunity. Same idea. If an audition is on your calendar, prepare with the free Audition Secrets guide, and find Lili at lilihaydn.com.

Get the gig. Keep the gig. Build the career.

Watch on YouTube or find every episode on the TCM Podcast page.