Dylan Berry of SmashHaus on How Indie Songwriters Win (Episode 158)

Work begets work.

Dylan Berry caught the music bug around a campfire, got his first drum kit one piece at a time, and played "Louie Louie" at his sixth grade talent show. The next day, 1,200 kids knew his name. In Episode 158 of The Career Musician, Nomad reconnects with the founder of SmashHaus, a career music producer, radio host and entertainment investor, and founder of NoizSociety.

The two first met in the mid-2000s, early in Nomad's run with Babyface. Their conversation covers how to avoid failing as an indie songwriter: build a routine, stay consistent, take honest feedback, and know the business before you sign your music away.

Scale yourself or cap out

SmashHaus started with a visit to a "tracking house": a studio with a dozen writing rooms all piped into one big tracking room, cranking out songs. Dylan wanted one. A building was too expensive, so in 2008, on painfully slow upload speeds, he built a digital version.

At the time he was composing for three TV series at once, 18 hours a day, while starting a family. So he brought in other composers to fill the non-essential parts while he wrote the themes and the hard scenes, and did three shows in a third of the time. His team came from two Craigslist posts. Out of a flood of replies, a tiny fraction became the core team he worked with for 12 years, on award shows and hundreds of TV shows.

"If you can't scale what you're doing, you cap out and you're done."

Dylan Berry, 6:47

Know the deal before you sign

Dylan admits he helped pioneer the music library agency model, and apologizes for it, because others abused it. He describes deals where a middleman takes a big cut, adds a recoup, gives the music away with nothing upfront and grabs half the publishing, leaving the writer with very little. His answer was to take SmashHaus out of the middleman role: it now works as a platform connecting creators directly with the networks and companies looking for content.

On libraries, he and Nomad agree: non-exclusive catalogs had their heyday, but with YouTube content ID and multiple companies claiming the same songs, they became more problem than solution. Dylan once had other catalogs flag shows that used only his own music, and fighting it chewed up his time and his income. His advice is to diversify, but do your research and favor exclusive deals with multiple catalogs. That is Savvy from the ETHOS code.

Routine and consistency beat waiting to go viral

When Nomad asks where an introverted artist should start, Dylan's answer is not technology. It is process. Most artists are not waking up and spending two hours a day reaching out to people and creating. Without relationships, your content just sits on a hard drive.

"You're not gonna go viral until you're going busy every freaking day."

Dylan Berry, 19:20

After years of interviewing creators on radio, the common thread he sees is consistent output. His example: The Chainsmokers, who, as he tells it, spent years DJing bottle service clubs in New York where the influencers were before a song finally took off. And he says Billie Eilish was being developed years before her record deal. There is no overnight success. Luck = preparation + opportunity.

Grow from your microcosm

Dylan's advice for young artists: stop looking for something that isn't in front of you. Use the tools of the internet. Partner with artists at your level: if they have 100 fans and you have 100, now you both have 200. Focus on the fans who care, give them a lot back, and ask them to tell a friend.

And pay attention. If you can't build past your mom and your dad, your music may not be resonating yet. Iterate.

Honest feedback and the smartest room

SmashHaus once sold short consultations with A&R reps and music supervisors. Some artists canceled after hearing their music wasn't competitive. Dylan's lesson: true advice isn't always welcome. He critiques production, not taste: the bass is over-compressed, the vocal is too loud, A/B it against the track you want to sound like. Most people thank him, because their friends and family won't tell them.

Nomad ties it to a core TCM pillar: develop keen self-awareness about how you can improve. Dylan adds the second half: surround yourself with people smarter than you.

"I surround myself with brilliant minds where I feel dumb every single day, and it makes me smarter."

Dylan Berry, 31:12

Nomad's version: eyes and ears wide open, mouth shut. That is Humility. And as they both note, in LA the real operators often show up in a T-shirt and sit quietly in the corner.

The takeaway

Dylan believes creators are stepping into a revolution, and that it rewards the people who show up and put in the work. Build a daily routine, learn the business, take the hard notes, and keep your circle sharp. For a plan you can start on today, grab the free plan of attack (POA) worksheet. Everything you do is an audition.

Get the gig. Keep the gig. Build the career.

Watch on YouTube or find every episode on the TCM Podcast page.